Much of Friday's discussion centered on Bryant Simon's presentation (watch it again if you like) that discusses the cultural meaning of Starbucks, and the social meanings of coffee, consumption, and commodification. No doubt his forthcoming book on the subject will stir up great discussion--conducted over a cup of coffee of course.
As we are discussing food and its culture during the Age of Exploration, I thought Simon's lecture might serve as a nice introduction--think of it as an appetizer of sorts--for this conversation.
So, after reading Rachel Laudan's first essay on the origins of the modern diet, I'd like your thoughts on these questions: what historical factors, according to the author, account for the changing ideas of food, diet, and digestion over the course of the early mondern period? Why? What is the most important thing to glean from this article, in your estimation?
The second article on the Islamic origins of the Mexican kitchen is equally fascinating, and provides much food for thought (sorry, couldn't resist this pun). So, regarding this article, are you convinced by her argument? Why or why not? And, secondly, how does Laudan's second article add to your understanding of what al-Ghassani mentioned about his travels to Spain? (It may be helpful to skim over the Spain packet again to answer this question.)
Finally, incorporate anything from Mr. Carson's lecture that may illuminate discussion of Laudan's articles, and leave any additional thoughts in the comments about Simon's lecture.
Post by 7:50am, Monday 10/29.
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Due to a lack of scientific knowledge and limited technologies, the doctors of the Old World relied on health value of one’s diet as a form of practical, effective treatment. This practice of prescribed dietary practices, according to Laudan, can be traced back to ancient Greece. These practices, along with numerous works and ideas from the classical world, were lost to the Europeans of the dark ages. But with the rebirth of Europe, the Renaissance, these practices were brought to light and in effect changed the way people ate. The evolution of diet during this period of time just exemplifies how every sect of culture changes with discovery, revelation, and education. The knowledge of food and diet only grew from the exposure of foreign cultures during the age of exploration as well as the biological knowledge acquired from the age of enlightenment.
Laudan’s second article more or less explains the history of a traditional Mexican dish – “mole” – and the dish’s relevance to the cultural expansions from the age of exploration. It turns out that mole is heavily inspired by the diet of medieval Muslims, a diet that inspired the Spanish explorers, indirectly inspiring the colonies in “New Spain”. Both of these articles give great examples of the shared culture during this period and how these events so impact the way we live even today.
Ideas on food, diet, and digestion changed because ideas about diet and nutrition - which is closely tied to chemistry and medicine -changed. Even as early as 400BC, ccoks and physicians shared a common notion of diet and nutrition. Before 1650, the process of digestion was considered a form of cooking. food was then assigned degrees of heat, coldness, wetness, and dryness. The majordomos had to prepare meals adjusted to the temperment of the eater. After 1650, these ideas changed because of Paracelsus, a German doctor. The actual shift of ideas comes from the technology of distillation. Physicians now believed that digestion involved fermantation rather than cooking. Old ingredients then took on new meanings and importnace. Overall, the change of these ideas came from notions on medicine. It really had to do with the ignorance and education of that time. The second article has to do with the origins of mole. Supposedly, it has Islamic origins. Although the mole that is popular today did appear in the 1700's and may have Islamic influences, I've heard of other stories of Native Americans and Aztecs creating mole-like dishes with cacao beans. But yeah, I think that this argument could be right. I have heard that mole was created by a nun who wanted to impress an important priest or the pope. I forget. She kind of just threw the ingredients together and it took her days to get it right. I guess this nun could have been influenced by Islamic cuisine.
According to Laudan, a German doctor named Paracelsus believed that the "cosmic life cycle based on cooking" was incorrect. Paracelsus along with physicians of the 17th century believed the culinary cycle involved fermentation instead of cooking. Thus, digestion was associated with fermentation rather than cooking. These new changes in the digestive process prompted cooks to make new dishes that complimented the new ideas about the "cosmic culinary cycle." For example, fresh fruit and vegetables became very popular in kitchens because they fermented rapidly. As a result, the European diet evolved into one of better nutrition. Furthermore, I thought the most important thing discussed in the article was the issue of sugar. If sugar had stayed in our diet as a regular spice, then the obesity rate today would probably be doubled, and we would all be walking around with a mouth full of black teeth.
Moving to the second article I do agree with Laudan's argument. Some of the points she makes coincide with Mr. Carson’s. For example, she believes that the cuisine from Mexico all the way to India originated from the Muslims of the eight century, and Carson believes that history started in the regions of the Indian Ocean. Drawing from both of their perspectives, I think that the culture of “medieval Islam” developed into something rather extraordinary that spread into surrounding cities, into Europe, and finally into the new world. This cultural spreading was also documented by al-Ghassani when he visited Spain and saw a country that had adopted cultural influences from other countries and cultures.
The changing ideas of food and diet involved many people and distinct scientific discoveries regarding chemistry and dietary issues. The specifics of these have been mentioned in the previous comments, but overall the main historical factors that contribute to the change of ideas is this knowledge and this science because as people developed ideas and thoughts regarding what should be eaten and as these thoughts changed or were confirmed by science, the diet of the area shifted to fit the current mold of thinking. The distillation technology serves as the cornerstone to this advancement, and the perception of digestion made specific spices and ingredients gain more importance or less importance according to popular dietary ideas. The details are interesting and they center around this idea of development and knowledge, specifically in the works of Paracelsus and other physicians of the time. The belief in digestion as a form of fermentation had very important implications to dietary function. The second article was very interesting, and without another side of the story, I am convinced by her argument because the logic seems very plausible and the cultural exchange from the islamic world of the time does not seem to limit itself in any areas, including food. Al-Ghassani's article highlights this cultural exchange and overall these two works come together to show how much cultural representation dealt with the melding together and exchanging of ideas, customs, and even "mole."
According to Laudan the change in dietary habits between the 16th and 17th centuries was due to changing ideas about diet and nutrition which can be found through the history of chemistry and medicine. People in the 16th century believed that digesting was actually a form of cooking. People also thought that “maintaining a proper equilibrium of bodily fluids by eating a suitably balanced diet” was important. The four fluids, humors, in the diet corresponded to the four Aristotelian elements-air, water, fire, and earth. In the 17th century scholars started to follow Paracelsus who believed digestion involved fermentation instead of cooking. Paracelsus came up with three new elements to replace Aristotle’s four. It was interesting to see how chemistry and medicine had such a large part in preparing a meal. Laudan’s argument in the second article seems logical because she explained how both the mole and the curry came from the cuisine of Islam. She was able to explain how the Islam cuisine came to Spain and then traveled over to New Spain because of Cortés, this is how mole came to be represented. She also explained how the Mughals who had conquered parts of India traveled through Persia and adopted some of the Islam cuisine, this is how curry was introduced. Laudan’s article and al-Ghassani’s trip to Spain shows how cultures interact and meld into one. Also al-Ghassani says how when he entered a city there was a feast and entertainment. Laudan shows the importance of food, its more than just something to eat. According to Laudan some eating practices trace back to Greece. As the Renaissance began these practices from Greece were able to resurface. Finally, I really enjoyed Simon’s lecture because I had never really thought about the ideas behind Starbucks. –Meagan Smith
Wow, I must admit, I feel a bit betrayed after watching Bryant Simon's video. Maybe betrayed isn't the right word. Conned is more like it. Oh well.
And the appetizer pun- classic.
Laudan attributes this radical change in diet to changing thoughts on what was considered healthful and beneficial to eat. Fresher and more nutritious items were being prepared and consumed. Previously, no one knew what sanitary measures should be taken or what actually occurs inside of one's body. One would eat to counteract the moisture and temperature of one's body. They believed that everything needed to be cooked so that nothing was dangerous.
Then, in the 17th century, people began to question classical medicine and follow the ideas of a German doctor, Paracelsus, who completely renounced the ideas of classical nutrition. Fresher food began being consumed and actually considered healthy. These ideas were radical, but people realized how much more sense they made. A little extreme, some even began to believe that sugar was a poison and should be completely avoided, at all costs.
Finally, I am very convinced by her argument about Mexican (New Spain) food being inspired from Islamic cooking. She provides logical reasons and plausible evidence that this could be the case entirely. Having not read anything to counter her statements, I am fully convinced that she is right on. I would be interested in seeing if there is any counter evidence, but it seems strange that someone would feel so passionately about this subject as to refute her statements. Al-Ghassani recorded some of these exchanges between the Spanish in Muslim and this concept seems entirly possible.
So I guess, as opposed to asking why, I am asking why not and not coming up with any viable answers...
Laudan's essay was marvelous. I learned a lot about the origin of food and diet. It was very interesting to see how thoughts on nutrition changed over time. I believe that thought on food, diet, and digestion changed with new scientific knowledge gained. When distillation was discovered, Paraclesus argued the beliefs of cooks and doctors. Also, with knowledge of other lands and their foods, people probably began to question their ways of eating and preparing food. There are many important things to glean from this article. It is quite important to realize that the food we eat today is a blend of many cultures and lands. Just like the Muslim foods were attractive to the Europeans, we too adopt other lands' ways of eating. Laudan's second article on mole and currie was interesting. The points Laudan argues are very valid. By tracing the travels of past explorers, paths can be seen between the two countries. These paths link different foods and food preparations. Al-Ghassani writes about feasts and the cultural exchanges between the Spanish and the Islamic world. Now I feel like getting a snack. No mole though...yikes! later
Given that I am a bit tired and under the weather, i'll have to be concise. The diets of medieval Europe were dramatically influenced by the medical and health advancements of the era. This focus on the physiological benefits of food stemmed from, as Laudan observes, the classical world of ancient Greece. Although the ancient practices of dietary analysis were lost during the dark ages, medieval Europe gradually rediscovered and reintroduced them into everyday life. This concept illustrates that food is another aspect of history which behaves in the same fashion as any cultural phenomenon: it evolves with discovery and interaction. Laudan’s second article discusses how Asian cuisine impacted the food of the new world, as she focuses on the specific dish called “mole”. This example furthers Laudan’s thesis and clearly illustrates how cuisine spreads, mixes, and stirs around in the world.
This article traces the origins and progression of society’s perception of food and digestion in the 17th century. As a result of an influx of new ideas and beliefs permeating throughout society during this time period, individuals altered their dietary structure and habits in order to coincide with the opinions appropriate to the time. For example, an emphasis on fermentation in foods as opposed to traditional forms of cooking led to an increased popularity of rapidly fermenting foods such as fruits and vegetables. The positive implications of the emergence of this belief, as well as certain technological advancements such as distillation, are evidenced in the healthy and nutritious nature of the European’s diet. Concerning the second article, I am fascinated by Laudan’s contention that the Mexican dish “mole” actually held deep roots and inspiration in traditional Islamic tradition. I also agree with Kaylin’s observation which relates Laudan’ article with Mr. Carson’s Atlantic Market lecture, which defined the Indian Ocean as the center of both economic and cultural exchange during the Age of Exploration. Touching on the widely applicable theme of globalization, both Laudan and Carson provided factual information and a global context that explains how cultural interaction and representation during the Age of Exploration has influenced many of the standards, practices, and beliefs that still exist today.
Many historical factors accounted for the many ideas surrounding food, diet, digestion including (what i thought was interesting) the texture and nature of certain foods. They separated them from dry and wet and cold and hot. Dietary wisdom of that time depended on the process of digesting foods as a part of cooking and the second involved a proper equilibrium of bodily fluids by eating a balanced diet. the perfect meal was considered slightly warm and moist. (sick) An important thing to take out (pun intended) from this article is the fact that their diets did not follow a diet like we follow today. they did not look at calories or fat content of foods. sugar was considered a staple and they partook liberally of sugar like we do salt, adding it to most foods.
I am conviced by her argument in that the two molles are related to each other by processes causing them to come into close proximity with each other. Ingredients for new worlds and old worlds clashed which im sure caused several new and exotic dishes that mixed the two cultures; however,i think there were a number of things not just one you can pin down that caused two seemingly different dishes to be similar. It adds to my understanding of al-Ghassani becaus it shows examples of cultural crossings in which different countries were able to veiw and adapt to practices and traditions set down by other cultures.
Mr. Sinitiere,
I am hoping that you read this before tomorrow! I just checked the blog and saw that on the Nabil Matar post I did contribute. I believe it was October 15th. Am I looking at the right post? If it is not this post I am not sure which one I have not completeted. Sorry for polluting this discussion! thanks.
lp
Saw it; corrected. Thanks.
karolyn says...
Food can be studied with regard to the social, economic, and even political issues of the day. I think tracing the change in dietary habits due to different ideas on food, diet, and digestion a fascinating subject. The evolution of medicine and chemistry as time progressed aided in finding the most beneficial dietary habits for the population. Heat, coldness, wetness, and dryness corresponded with earth, wind, air, and fire. That is very interesting. Laudan's argument was that both the mole and the curry came from Islamic culture. Its also very interesting to see how the mole was brought to the New World by Cortez after the Muslims brought it to Spain. Food is much more than just the surface appearance. It displays a culture's history, background, origins, and interactions with other cultures. The video about Starbucks was good by the way. I liked it.
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