A few weeks ago during our unit on WW2 we viewed segments of Triumph of the Will. I've asked a good friend, former SBS Dean of Students, and historian Nathan Barber to offer commentary about the film. He's read your comments from the previous post, and responded with what I've posted below. Read his response, and leave your comments (i.e., additional questions, follow-up points, etc.). Avail yourselves of this great opportunity for additional dialogue about this most important film.
Thanks, Nathan!
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Dear Dr. Sinitiere and the SBS Euro classes,
Thank you for providing me the opportunity to participate in your Triumph of the Will assignment. I trust that each of you understand and appreciate the significance of the film you watched. Riefenstahl’s film has been both praised and vilified in the years since its release more than seventy years ago. Hitler issued a blank check to Riefenstahl to complete the project and she gladly accepted the challenge. As historians, you must remember the historical context of the project: the mid-1930s when the Nazi party had begun its climb to power out of the rubble and ruin that was post-WWI Germany. Riefenstahl could not have known where Hitler would lead the Nazi party and Germany over the next decade. For most who have vilified Riefenstahl and her work, the issue is whether or not she knew, at the height of Nazi power, the extent to which Hitler and the Nazis had taken their anti-Semitic nationalism. Evidence may suggest she knew but failed to separate herself from the party.
Let’s take a look at the film itself. Based on your blog comments, you clearly picked up on much of the symbolism, themes and allusions in Riefenstahl’s film. Well done. I’m impressed with your astute observations and articulate comments. I would like to offer two of my own observations for your consideration, observations that were not noted in the classes’ comments.
First, the film looks in retrospect to be propaganda. I cannot argue this point. I ask you, however, to consider Riefenstahl and her approach to the project. What she created was a portrait of Hitler and the Nazi party. Think back to your study of the Renaissance, specifically of Renaissance art. During this time, patrons commissioned the greatest artists of the day to create portraits. The visual description or likenesses portrayed the patrons as the patrons wished to be perceived by the viewer, perhaps strong or valiant or rich. Hitler, the patron, commissioned Riefenstahl, an artist, to create a portrait fashioned with camera and film rather than with brush and canvas. The finished work, Triumph of the Will, provides the viewer with the description or likeness of Hitler and the Nazis exactly as Hitler hoped: as savior and messiah for a broken and suffering people. Did you notice the joy and excitement on the faces of the Germans in the film in spite of the fact that their nation lay in economic shambles around them? Riefenstahl’s intent was to illustrate how Hitler and the Nazis gave the Germans hope. Your interpretation of Riefenstahl’s Hitler as a savior, as a messiah, as a divine figure, serves as evidence that Riefenstahl succeeded in creating the portrait Hitler desired. I offer to you that perhaps Riefenstahl the artist, not the propagandist, created Triumph of the Will as art and the Nazis then used the art as propaganda. After all, in that sense, is a commissioned portrait any different inasmuch as it is designed to propagate a particular idea about the subject of the portrait? This is not to suggest, though, that Riefenstahl didn’t know how her art would be used.
Second, I’d like to bring to your attention a certain bit of irony about Triumph of the Will. Though your comments did not indicate that you discovered this, I wonder if any of you noticed where the rally in the film was held. The rally in the film took place in Nuremberg as did so many similar rallies over the next dozen years. The irony? The famous trials in which Nazi war criminals were convicted also were held in Nuremberg. Coincidence? Not likely. While Berlin originally seemed an ideal location for the trials, Nuremberg offered a more suitable venue and seemed a fitting place to put to death the Nazi spirit which had, in a sense, been born out of the Nuremberg rallies in the 1930s.
Thank you again for the opportunity to offer a few thoughts on Triumph of the Will for your consideration. I look forward to any comments you may have. And for those of you taking the AP exam, I wish each of you all the best in the rest of your AP Euro course and on the exam, which happens to be just over the horizon.
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33 comments:
I was so convinced that the film was commisioned to convince the German people of the necesity of the Nazi party and the world of its strength that I never realized that this was artistic in its perception of Hitler as an individual. Also the fact about the Nuremberg was interesting in its symbolism. The annilation of Nazism to the world at Nuremberg could be viewed as a cycle from beginning to end. That this perfect picture of what the party represented is replaced with it’s downfall.
sarah period 6
I found the comparison made to art patrons of the Renaissance especially interesting, seeing that Riefenstahl was a prolific artist of her time and that Hitler was a type of patron who wanted to be glorified through her art. This patron-artist relationship also draws parallels to Absolutist Europe, where egotistical monarchs such as Louis XIV were painted to highlight only their attributes and to hide their flaws. In this manner, the commissioned artist undertakes the task of presenting Hitler favorably. The film can be considered her masterpiece of patron satisfaction as well as Hitler's masterpiece of propaganda once it was employed for his ambitions. I also found it fascinating that Hitler hired an artist to infuse her vision (which was possibly ignorant of the Nazi agenda)into his campaign for a new Germany since he was such an enthusiast of the arts, and especially the visual arts (a category in which motion picture can be included).
-Rebecca Bres Period 6
Your input is very interesting and definitely gives a new component to the subjects we were discussing. The movie that Riefenstahl created definitely can be tied back to the Renaissance art period in the the symbolism jumps out while watching the movie. The Nuremburg trials also was very ironic in that Hitler promised to free the German people from their economic troubles but after he was through ruling Germany, he only left Germany back in the shambles they began from.
Jennifer Doughtie
p.1
Thank you Mr. Barber for providing new insight into The Triumph of the Will. You pointed at many observations that I had not noticed. It is very interesting that the Nuremburg Trials after WWII to convict Nazi criminals occurred at the same place as the Nazi rallies. Maybe the allies did this to show the foolishness of the Nazi party. Also, tying this movie back to the Renaissance period puts the propoganda in a whole new perspective. Riefenstahl was paid to make Hitler appear favorably just as painters were commissioned to paint people in a better light. With her film, she allowed Hitler to viewed more highly by German citizens and paved a way for his domination.
Leslie period 2
Until now, it was hard to view the film as a work of art, but taking it out of the context of what occured as a result of the film, we can see that Riefenstahl really did create something extraordinary in her depiction of Hitler. And the idea that there mass rallies were often held in the same place that Nazi leaders were later convicted truly shows Nazism in a new light. How many of those individuals that attended the rallies would have even fathomed that only a few short years later, the leaders they praised would be condemned for their actions? Especially Hitler himself. The response that came from the film itself not only proves it to be a true work of art, but also proves how exceedingly naive the German people were upon viewing it.
Betsy P.2
I never before considered the artist-patron relationship of Riefenstahl and Hitler and it's a very interesting observation. The only other thing I could add is that, in the portraits of Renissance monarchs or nobles, there does not appear to be the same level of deification that Hitler enjoys. Hitler is hailed as a Messiah descending from the clouds, retaining just a modicum of mortality. However, the European monarchs of the Renissance era were only portrayed as supremely important men.
Walker
Mr. Barber,
You're thoughts were very interesting. Highlighting the similarities between Renaissance artists and Riefenstahl gave me a new perspective on the film itself as a work of art that I wouldn't have thought of. Also, while the Nuremberg matter had crossed my mind once or twice, I hadn't truly picked out the great irony in it until you pointed it out. Thank you for your input!
Leah Wakefield
“Life Imitates Art and Art Imitates Life.” So goes the saying. Viewing the Triumph of the Will, I never thought about the film as art, only propaganda. I knew it was very effective in making its message and that films are a modern form of art. Mr. Barber’s blog makes clear the connection of the art form and the message. I think the film as art documented and imitated the Nazi rise and later the actions of the people were imitations of the propaganda art form. Thank you for pointing out the significance of Nuremberg in the film. A cruel irony in German history that Nuremberg would be the place of pride for the Nazis at the beginning and that at the end it would be the place of shame for them.
Kevin Smith P.3
After you brought the fact that the rallies were held at Nuremberg, I found it ironic that Nuremberg, which i guess could be seen as a symbol of Nazi Power and propaganda is also the place of the downfall of the Nazi party (the Nazi war criminals being tried here).
David
Period 1
I never thought about the idea that Riefenstahl as being separated from the Nazi party. As you pointed out she was an artist and it is only speculation if she was a member of the Nazi party but she did create a great artistic piece. The second point, about Nuremberg was extremely fascinating. I had noticed the location but had no clue that it was taking place in Nuremberg.
Davison C. 6th
Mr. Barber, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. Riefenstahl’s directing shows the light she wishes people to view Hitler in. I noticed how each time Hitler began to speak after the crowd had been cheering the cheering seemed to immediately stop indicating Hitler’s authoritative persona and divine rule. Riefenstahl wanted to paint a picture of Hitler for generations to come. For example, there are paintings of Henry VIII that give us insight into his physical demeanor, but each painter had to show his or her subject in a more favorable light. If the king or queen had any qualities that were not very aesthetic he or she would not show these unflattering traits. Germany’s economy was not stable after WWI, so Hitler offered a new found hope in such a difficult time. People viewed him as a messiah, and Riefenstahl’s goal was to get this point across. The look on people’s faces is astounding. All people in the video strain their necks to catch a glimpse of the great savior. We miss you, Mr. Barber!
Mary Papasakelariou
Thank you for your imput on the Triumph of the Will. It put a new perspective on how some of the characteristics of the Renaissance time period were used in the propaganda techniques during Hitler's reign. This fact shows that Hitler did posses an artistic genious, it just did not present itself in a traditional form of art.
It is also an ironic fact that leaders of the Nazi party were being tried and sentenced to death in the same places they once ruled.
I had not considered the fact that this film was created while Hitler was on the rise to his peak of power, and the power portrayed in the film only grew as time passed. I also had not contemplated the significance of the trials of Nazi criminals being held in Nuremburg. It is especially interesting to think about how other Europeans viewed the Nazi war criminal trials. Because the rallies at Nuremburg were so massive and helped signal Nazi rule, I would imagine that many Europeans saw the trials as the final episode of the Nazi rule. Thanks Mr. Barber for the comments.
Anna period 6
Mr. Barber
Thank you so much for the response it was extremely interesting. Your thoughts on the film gave me a whole different feel for the way the movie was filmed!
Kendall
I hadn't thought about the connect between this film and the renaissance. I didn't even think about the people that would have been watching this movie (at the time that it was made). I just assumed that it was propoganda.
Thank you Mr. Barber for showing me another side to the story.
ellie period 6
I never thought about the connection between the Nuremburg rallies and the Nuremberg trials. I though that was a very interesting point because I love finding irony in history. Also, the artistic connection to the film never stood out to me either. Looking at the film as a work of art really gives it a whole new meaning. Thank you Mr. Barber for taking the time to discuss this fil with us. :-)
Katie LeVrier
period 6
I had never before considered that Triumph of the Will was a form of art; as you stated, I viewed it as a mere piece of propaganda. The reference to the Renaissance art really put things in perspective for me. Also, I had never realized that the rallies took place in Nuremburg; how ironic. It is very fitting that the trials took place there. Thank you for enlightening us!
Susan Period 2
Thank you for your response Mr. Barber. I think that is an interesting connection between the Renissance art versus that of Riefenstahl. What i believed to be very interesting is the fact that Hitler could have had a painting made but instead he had a film made. The fact that he didn't choose to have a painting made is also interesting since Hitler was an artist.
Kirstyn
Period 3
In AP EURO right now Mr. Sinitiere has stressed using POV when analazying a document. It is interesing how you have considred Riefenstahl's point of view- a concept that I overlooked when I first saw the film. THank you for your input Mr.Barber
HArris 6th
The notion that this film was a commissioned portrait of Hitler completely ties into the other symbolism present. Renaissance portraits often showed altered forms of their subjects in order to send a message, but these alterations could also suggest that the subjects had something to hide about their true appearances. In this case we know that Hitler had hidden plans, so this idea of a filmed portrait is a great connection. Also the fact that the Renaissance was a time of cultural prosperity would make this method appealing to Hitler. Often when one watches a film one can forget about the person behind the camera, whose vision in fact affects the entirety of a film's content. Thank you, Mr. Barber, for your insight.
Lucy 6th period
The comparison to the renaissance artists really points out what this piece is, a commissioned work of art designed to put the Nazi party in the best possible light. I did realize that both this rally and the war trials took place in Nuremberg but I always assumed that is was a coincidence, not calculated. In a way it seems that the war trials returned to the city of the rally to retouch the picture that Riefenstahle had made. It is a wonderful irony.
Tyler Thomas
Period Two
The reference to Renaissance is very compelling and interesting because I had never thought of the film that way. I think that Riefenstahl, as you pointed out, was just making a film as an artistic piece. The camera angles and techniques as well as the symbolism point to the fact that she was just an artistic director with a grand vision. Unfortunately, that grand vision was also very helpful to the Nazi image, and now her name is synonymous with the most epic propaganda film. Thank you for taking the time as well to give us your input!
Thank you for your input. I think that is very interesting that you believe that Riefenstahl was an artist rather than a propagandist when she created Triumph of the Will. The comparison to Renaissance art is very intriguing. Renaissance art was created to portray whatever the artist wanted it to portray. It is very ironic that Germany was indeed in a state of destruction and the people in the film were happy. I guess that is how Riefenstahl used her art as propaganda. And wow, I never noticed that the rallies in Triumph of the Will were held in Nuremberg. It is very ironic that just years later, the Nazi’s that put on these so-called “amazing” rallies were put on trial and put to death at the same place.
Jenna H. 2 Period
wow that was very interesting! The artistic connection to the movie, and the Nuremburg trials stood out to me. Obviously the movie was propoganda, but when you truly think about all the detail that went into making you start to realise that it was art. it was aslo quite funny to see how the Nuremburg trials play out because it started off with hope and ended in despair. Thanks Mr. Barber for all you imput and insight! I hope we can hear more from you!!!
Nicole p.1
The comparison drawn to the Renaissance art intended to portray a certain ideal was very interesting. I think Hitler was aiming to portray himself as a savior to the people without society fully realizing his intentions. Also, the irony of the Nuremberg trials was a factor I failed to notice, but it made the symbolism all the more intriguing. Once the illusion had been shattered, the Germans brought their illusionists back to the source to face justice. Thank you so much for your feedback!
Emily B Period 2
I noticed the propaganda usage, but didn't even think about how it was derived from the Renaissance period! Also, I didn't notice that this was the same location that the Nuremburg Trials took place, and that adds to the overall irony of the entire situation. It shows me how the Europeans were so hopeful for a positive future that they were blind to what Hitler was actually getting them involved in.
Alex period 1
I think your comparison between Riefenstahl's film, and the paintings and other art propaganda of the renaissance period to be an interesting comparison. It is definitely a truthful comparison. As renaissance patrons would have themselves depicted as heroic, rich, and powerful, so did Hitler have himself portrayed as a sort of Messiah for Germany.
-Andy Malone-
Period 6
Mr. Barber thank you so much for your insight on the film. It was an outlook I had never explored before. I found it most interesting that the director was an artist and when the film was created its sole purpose wasnt just for propaganda. Rather, the inclusion of art provides a different aspect and proves Hitler's point that art can be used as propanganda. Thanks again.
Shannon Dodds-1st
Thanks Mr. Barber for your time on the triumph of the will video. I thought it was interesting on how the Nazi downfall was at Nuremburg. They used it for such a propoganda icon and symbol of power it was kind of ironic.
Brandon, Period 1
after watching the Triumph of the Will, I never thought about the film as art, only raw propoganda. I knew it was very effective in making its message and that films are a form of art. Mr. Barber’s blog post make it clear about the connection of the ART FORM and the MESSAGE. I think the film as art documented and copied the Nazi rise and later the actions of the people were imitations of the propaganda's art. One of the terrible ironies in German history is that Nuremberg would be the place of pride for the Nazis at the beginning of the war and the rise of Hitler, and consequently that at the end of the war, it would be the place of shame for them.
Connor Wood p.1
Very insightful views, good to hear a different aspect and perpective of the "propaganda" film Triumph of Will. The Nuremburg fact was very intresting and ironic. Thanks for participating in this study with us Mr. Barber.
Drew Sekaly
Mr. Barber, your observations are uncanny in every sense of the word. While the Riefenstahl-Hitler relationship is one of question, we cannot dispute the fact that both were in the party the ultimate manipulated and controlled an entire nation. Who is the genuis behind the nazi party? Hitler, the charismatic front man, has also had the responsibility for the massive damage the nazi inflicted, but what about the people that helped put him in power. Did they know the power they were putting in this man's hands? The propagana commissioned by Hitler was brilliant. These feats could not have been created by one man alone however.
John Per 6
I am very passioned of history viewed by ordinary people's eyes. It was a real pleasure for me to read this article. Thank you!
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